This is all in response to witnessthis’ latest post, in which he imagines a world without money. It’s a good start, but as per my response, far from what’s required. I’ve had this discussion with myself plenty of times, and it’s become clear just what the way forward is. This is the comment I left on his post, which probably merits a post of its own, here:
It’s a step in a different direction, but it won’t solve the problem. The “system” that we see around us was built by none other than people like us. Everything that’s wrong with the world is basically a magnified, summarized version of the collective human spirit. Greed, war, extortion, poverty, all these things only exist because people put them there.
Getting rid of money will ultimately take us a step backwards, into the feudal ages, where it’s all about power. You can bet that people with their guns, bombs and tanks will quickly assert power over resource-rich regions, once again leaving the poor and defenseless to starve, or serve as slave labour.
Like I said somewhere on Twitter once (or was it over IRC, i forget): The perfect human society cannot possibly exist, for it would require the complete absence of human inhabitants.
In order to create a perfect world, you’ll first need to break the ambitious and dominant spirits of every single individual – for those are the roots of tyranny and greed. Then you need a single, unequivocally accepted ruler who makes every single decision, and you need to have that ruler set on the improvement of the human race, rather than fulfilling selfish desires for power.
Huge smack in-between-your-fucking-eyes twist? The world was EXACTLY like that, before the Israelites ordered God to give them a human king. We brought this entirely on ourselves, and in learning from our mistake as a whole, will eventually endure another massive upheaval (personally, I reckon it’s the biblical armageddon), after which we’ll accept that God is, well, God, and build a new society around His rules, which will in all likelyhood be called the “Kingdom of Heaven”.
See? It’s all under control
And PS: Why is it that you have to be dead before people listen to you? Does wisdom mature with mortis? Just checking.
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I fully agree that social systems inherent in society are human inventions, however, things like greed, war, poverty etc. EMERGED from these systems rather than being designed or placed within them by their creators.
“Getting rid of money will ultimately take us a step backwards, into the feudal ages.” Are you suggesting that money didn’t exist in the feudal ages? The Feudal Age was based more on ownership yes, but also most certainly based on wealth. Kings were kings (with the power that comes with the title) based on their class, which was determined by how wealthy they were.
“In order to create a perfect world … you need a single, unequivocally accepted ruler who makes every single decision.” How different is that from having kings in times past? Or having presidents and current-day rulers for that matter? Today such people are placed in power in a more democratic manner in order to improve society for all – at least as far as humanly possible. Of course with great power come great responsibly; and being imperfect human beings themselves, some never quite get it right.
To believe that the world was once perfect in biblical times is a lovely thought, yet it seems that for now we’re going to have to make do with those currently in power, and perhaps believe that heaven is a place on Earth.
It’s a sad view of human beings to believe that “every single individual” has an inherent ambitious and dominant spirit. Do you believe that people are born with such attributes? I don’t. These are learnt behaviors – learnt and picked up from within the society that people live.
People do what they do to survive and live a good quality life. In a society where money is required to achieve this (and value is arbitrarily attached to certain things), people are going to do what they do to attain it, e.g. declare war, steal and create strife.
Why is it that more resources (and money) are devoted to building prisons rather than elevating poverty when we know that poverty and inequality is the source of most crimes in society?
There is clearly something wrong with our current system. What is needed is a redesign based on a collective human spirit. The proposed resource-based economy is not perfect; we will never achieve perfection. It is just significantly better
It’s not so much a case of deliberate design than it is incidental inclusion. People, by their very nature, are insecure people to some degree. Some express it inward, some express it outward, and the cumulative effect is a society divided by the “dominant/submissive” line.
The problem here is that any given individual makes mistakes. Power magnifies those mistakes. Therefore, placing people in power will inevitably lead to very big mistakes – war, poverty, etc.
All that’s changed in the last few thousand years is how power was defined and wielded. In ancient Egypt, power was granted/handed down by the gods/priesthoods. In Israel, God directly chose His leaders. In the feudal ages, power was won by conquest. And in the 21st century, power is defined by wealth.
The issue of “money” is largely irrelevant here. The concept of currency goes back pretty much to the beginning of time. It’s only now that money is a factor, since it’s used to define power.
So take a look at modern democracy. It’s actually more money-driven than most people think. Firstly, you need money to register, then you need funding to compete in the elections – and finally, you need tax money in order to effect any real change. This means that whoever has the money, has the power, and presidents/parliaments being bought is no new concept – it happens all the time in SA.
All of this – democracy, money – does one thing: Put the dominant in power. And some people are just naturally more dominant than others. Upbringing doesn’t create dominance, it just amplifies what’s already there – the will to survive. Millions of children go through similar upbringings every year worldwide, but not all of them go on to create powerful corporations.
To alter the world system, you need to start at the foundations, and the foundation is people, and their desires. You can’t start at any higher level and expect to get anywhere. Communism failed in Russia for this reason. China became totalitarian for this reason.
Here’s a few movies you might find interesting (as they deal with this subject to some degree):
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427392/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0238380/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0402022/
If power is defined by wealth in the 21st century (as you suggest) then why not simply eliminate all notions of wealth? In fact everything you’ve said here points to money being the central problem. A step in the right direction is implementing an alternative to a monetary-system, which is exactly what my post is all about.
PS: Please post your comment on my blog as well to keep the thread going there too
You can’t eliminate the concept of wealth any more than you can eliminate any single object, region or idea that people can create, own or control. Without eliminating the people, of course, which is why I say that the perfect human society is the one that doesn’t exist.
The problem is that people love power, and no matter what you take away, you can’t take that away. It started with tribes, clubs and bearskin, and it’s moved on to corporations, battleships and high fashion, and nothing in human nature has changed at all.